68. Using your Lived Experiences to Enhance Your Teaching As An LGBTQ Educator

Have you ever wondered how diverse life experiences shape the way we teach and create in the world of theater?

In this episode, Wilfred Paloma (he/him) shares his unique journey from growing up in extreme poverty in the Philippines to becoming a dynamic force in American arts education. He dives into how his personal experiences as a queer individual and educator inform his approach to teaching, particularly in navigating anti-queer behavior and fostering inclusive learning environments.

Through our conversation you will:

• Discover how to utilize your lived experiences to enhance your teaching and creative practices.
• Learn practical strategies for confronting and addressing anti-queer behavior in educational settings.
• Gain insights into how authenticity and self-actualization can transform your role as an educator or artist.

Tune in to this episode now to hear how Wilfred Paloma’s life journey is reshaping the future of arts education and inclusion.

Transcript

Bryan (he/they): [00:00:00] Hi, Wilfred. How are you doing this morning? 

Wilfred (he/him): I am fine. Good morning to you, Brian. 

Bryan (he/they): Good morning. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are? 

Wilfred (he/him): Yeah, happy to. My name is Wilfred Paloma, as you can see on the screen. Lovely. My pronouns are he, him, his. Who am I? Let's start. I am a brother. I am a proud son.

I come from a strong line of female Philippinex folks. I was born in the Philippines. My experience is actually one, I came to America as a refugee, an immigrant refugee. Believe it or not, because of a volcano eruption but that would take a whole another, a whole other episode to talk about.

So that's a little bit about my cultural origins. I also like to, especially in moments like this, speak to the truth that, extreme poverty was my first experience of the world and that is the root and something that I take with me. into [00:01:00] all the rooms.

Talk about more as we go on. I've lived a lot of places. San Diego, up and down. I spent some time on the east coast in the Wilton Manor area, Miami, South Beach, New York as well for a couple of years. And then in the Midwest, in Minneapolis specifically for some time. So I've been bi coastal. And then, as I explain it, the many hats that I wear, teaching, wild, queer, love that. Several things. I look at my teaching, facilitation, my arting, my artist practice all those things in separate buckets, and to be as succinct about it, in terms of teaching, I do a lot of K 12 in residency teaching, a lot of what we would call like arts integration.

Pure or discreet arts work and certainly enrichment work. Most recently in the last five years I've done much more exclusively in higher ed. I'm a full time interdisciplinary faculty at the [00:02:00] University of San Diego in the music and theater departments.

I'm also a lecturer. I teach four courses at SDSU, San Diego State University. And a course at San Diego City College. I'll talk more about what those are, because I think they're germane to this conversation, aside from that, I wear the hat of director of education and community engagement at Diversionary Theatre, which is the third oldest LGBTQIA centering theatre in the nation.

And then finally, I do a lot of production work particularly in new work development within the realm of theatre for social change. Very specific. Youth facing, youth serving, youth participants in musical theater production. So I'm actually in pre production for two shows in the fall, Willy Wonka Jr.

and Alice in Wonderland Jr. That's me! 

Bryan (he/they): Gosh, it's so funny because I always say that I just do so much. And I'm just hearing you list that all off. I [00:03:00] feel tired. So that is definitely a vibe for those of us who are educators and theater makers. We just like constantly doing you've already mentioned some, but what was life like for you as a queer student? 

Wilfred (he/him): So I how do I want to start? Man, that's a big question. 

And I appreciate this question, Bryan. I thank you for sending these questions ahead of time. And I really appreciate Being able to sit on marinade because it's a lot to sip through. I often, depending on who I'm speaking to, lovingly say, I, certainly my high school years were right in the pre and then immediately post first iteration.

of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. For sure. I knew. How did I know? Things like I wasn't interested in the stereotypical, what all the boys were called to do. I was really curious about these other things. And certainly, I have three sisters, [00:04:00] one of which is very close in age, we're about a year apart.

And that classic sibling thing of what is she doing? Oh she played the clarinet. And I followed suit and was like, Oh, music. Okay, great. Played the violin. And my friendships, I was attracted to people who now looking back were really just fearless, People who had a sense of self at six, seven years old, that were just like, Hey, what's up, da.

What I could tell you, what I was not attracted to was this kind of toxic feeling. of patriarchy. I'll even say that. How did I know what that was? Filipinx culture is, it's very much these, male, that binary. It's very clear there. And it certainly comes with prescribed role, duties, et cetera.

One of which [00:05:00] is, head of the household, the man, right? Kind of what you would expect. And then the woman, the wife, the spouse is at home. What does that entail? All the things that you would think, right? But it goes deeper than that. There's the emotional side of what that is.

And certainly when I say toxic, Patriarchy. One of the things is that kind of dismissal of how I'm feeling and really the declaration of that and cultivating that. So no joke, all of my, now thinking back actually in this moment, all my kindergarten teacher through fifth grade. All of which were these amazingly empathic challenging women teachers.

And that energy I really was like enthralled by. So I was the kid that, Hey, can I stay in class and help? [00:06:00] What are you doing? Da, right? And also remember since I came over, English was my second language. So I had a lot of, in the front end of things, A speech pathologist, right? There was a lot in that to unpack for me.

And luckily because, one of the tropes you hear all the time, right? Asian people, we're smart! Whatever. I like learning. I will say that. And how did that show up early on? I was like, just voracious in reading. I was just curious, truly. And so being a queer student early on, to me meant I did not feel at home in these typical lanes.

The athletics. People excel in, right? You name it. Where I did start to find agency and a little bit of myself was the governance aspects, of course later on moving out of elementary school into middle school, [00:07:00] I found myself in Associated Student Body. And what was I attracted to?

The Commissioner of Activities. Why? Looking back, I've always been interested in how people engage each other. And I always laugh about it because then in high school, I was also class president. So what did that mean as the commissioner of activities and class president? I literally planned all of the dances.

So you would think oh, that's a, that's another kind of trope. If you, if we just strip that away, what I feel like I was trying to do really was be a person, an arbiter of those spaces in a way that I could call forward. I knew I wasn't alone, but I was the only one out for a very long time and kind of to bring it full circle until that critical juncture of who are I for the straight guy.

And then all of a sudden it was cool. It was, it's cool. And [00:08:00] Oh, out of the woodwork, so and that's how it felt for a very long time. I'm skipping over, the ennui of the ridicule and the teasing and the things, because that is.

Absolutely, that's a thing. But I think what is more important for me to say is what were the things that happened inside of that, that allowed me to get to now where I am. 

Bryan (he/they): How do you think that those experiences inform your work and education? 

Wilfred (he/him): Oh my gosh that's, Quite literally informs every aspect.

One of the courses I teach is the art of teaching artistry. It is a mixed bag of like graduate students and undergraduate students and the three threads in that class that I talk about and facilitate towards is what is your artistic practice?

What is your teaching and facilitation practice? And what is the professional landscape, [00:09:00] your ideal one? And we start to talk a little bit about the synthesis, it's interconnectedness, but also how you do that for yourself, cultivate these things. That is my life. That's what that is. And it gets prickly, it gets crunchy.

There are I don't come to, and this is just who I am, how does it inform my teaching. I pull a lot from the dialogic. Pedagogy, andragogy that exists, certainly from Freire, certainly from Boal and folks that see education as that, as opposed to our, the dominant culture American way of education.

We still see it a bit, that I am teacher, download info, you will learn. And what is the assessment? This is the summative assessment, whatever that may be. And I just want to be clear that my, [00:10:00] that is not an indictment of that more than we must recognize that is what, it has not changed.

What has changed is people's ability to step into self. And that's another thing that I pull from, right? I, growing up the way that I did. postures me differently to how I engage with colleagues. It postures me differently to how I call forth and the possibilities of, and I talk about this all the time, my sensibilities as a human being, my training as an artist, and then my experience both as a teacher it comes together in ways that inform the very granular decision making, the more kind of macro certainly course design.

How do I call more diversity into the room? Certainly from [00:11:00] participants, but then in terms of how people learn.

don't have that cognition of self. How do I, that's the facilitation aspect, right? We can't say to somebody, learn this about X, Y, Z, or about yourself. We can be mirrors and that's where it gets prickly for students is that it's I certainly know what it feels like, and I don't like that.

And that doesn't foster the environment That I feel successful in, regardless of what hat I'm wearing. 

Bryan (he/they): Yeah, absolutely. It's funny about establishing your world and just running with it. And I think that's something that I wish that our frontal cortexes developed earlier so that we can run into the world as adults with, because it does take some time. What are some things that you do now when you're [00:12:00] confronted with anti queer behavior? 

Wilfred (he/him): Okay, this is one of those questions I was like, Ooooooh! Oh! I'll start with this. When I'm at work, 

 I am now in a place at 35 years old, that I can say every single thing that I put my time, myself into, I care deeply about. So it doesn't register as work. Yeah, I could feel tired because it takes a lot, but it's things that I know who I am.

I have a strong sense of that. And I'm interested in the reach and the impact. And those are the things that I always recalibrate around. And so when, how this connects to this question of, confronted by anti queer behavior, [00:13:00] certainly in spaces that I work. I find it easier to move through those things.

Maybe a better way to say it is I feel equipped to do that in those spaces because I can rely on, and I know this about myself now, I feel more empowered and equipped to step forward in those moments and have dialogue, whatever that may be. And I can give more examples here, but because It's not just, I'm this gay man.

I am this gay man who has. A modicum of authority, a hat that I wear that is very, right? You can't strip that part away from me because I've worked to that and in the same way that this other person has. So often I feel this anti queer behavior is a dismissal. It is an erasure. It is [00:14:00] a you name it.

it is an equivocation, a false equivocation, right? And often I find that it ascribes itself to a hierarchy that I personally take issue with. if all of those things are true, then I must know that. And in a professional setting, in a work setting, I know how to just speak to that very clearly, right?

And I try my best not to take that personally. Even though it absolutely feels personal because I'm just going to say it. Why do we not see that in this body? We accept them for who they are, period. And how does that show up? The fit that they're wearing today, right? People can get away with, certain things, right?

There was a time where tattoos were [00:15:00] frowned upon and now I see high school teachers with full on sleeves and things. We've grown past, I think, a little bit of those optics, right? In some ways. But what we don't. What we don't, I feel like we haven't grown out of yet. And I'll attach it to this.

I see, in the age of social media and technology, this echo chamber of nonsense and toxicity. People reply to things these TikToks. I don't have TikTok, but I know what it is. I'll read these comments. I'm like, why, quote, why are men so feminine today? Like things like this. it explodes my mind a little bit because it brings me back to growing up and like the constructs of what those actual behaviors are and how we assign those things down to the Barbie, down to the easy bake oven, down to the [00:16:00] stickball, down to it's just really?

What is the activity and how are we engaged in it? Why are we engaged in it? Like I'm interested in that. And I'm also like at six, seven, eight years old, we're already doing this as opposed to a myriad of other possibilities. As adults, why are we scared, it seems to have those types of conversations.

Oh, you're interested in that? If I would have had a teacher, a male teacher at that, to say to me, You're interested in that. That's cool. Let's. And somebody with that level of authority that takes that much space To then cultivate that in front of young people, what could that have done? I wonder. So in a professional space, that's what I do.

That's what I try to do and name those things. point blank, especially with students. And I will say this younger generation, the like [00:17:00] 18 to 24, they're not having it. They are not having it. And I'm like, whoa, it's actually right. It's actually our, my generation, older generation colleagues that have been in positions of power, certainly in higher ed forever that have no incentive to interrogate and examine.

Self, that's an obstacle, whether we want to call that structural or whatever. Now, this is a big question, so forgive me for taking a lot of air here, but the other part of that is, out in the real world, I feel it's hard. It is difficult. Why? Because there is a disconnect. In my experience, we have worked, and I say we, broad we, capital we.

LGBTQIA plus community has worked, elders have worked fiercely to conquer and [00:18:00] establish key essential vital spaces. And we know that. We know that as evidenced by Stonewall, right? That's like the impetus, right? The catalyst moment. A lot of people see that in our legacy as. And I don't dispute that, I think, yes, absolutely, it exploded what we now see as our kind of revolution.

Here in San Diego, we have that too. We had things like the Calif, which no longer exists. We have Moe's, which was before Hamburger Mary's, which Hamburger Mary's is now coming backAnd other. queer spaces, but the loss of that understanding within our larger cognition, coupled with technology and the immediacy of seeing in a post or current RuPaul's Drag Race era, it can be very how do [00:19:00] I say this?

The conflating of reality sometimes I think occurs where we feel connected more globally, right? But then in space, we take for granted some of these things and it shows up how we talk the way that we talk to each other. I'm like, I wrote a whole thesis about this.

It's the hyper sexualized nature of gay male culture. Period. We could talk about that for a minute. And how specifically, and I'm gonna call this to task, gay men. We, as a subculture in the LGBTQIA broad spectrum, we uphold a lot of the same white supremacy, male masculine tropes.

And also, how do we see that? Again, this false equivocation of value, [00:20:00] of self worth in the way that we immediately assume, Oh, this is going to be a transactional thing. How about we like pump the brakes and in the same way we want to feel uplifted by, right?

Dominant culture and seen that we need to acknowledge that is work we must do with each other. 

But as an educated person, I want, I feel like I'm called to say that's where it gets muddy, people. We, we must be better than that. And how I feel that in space is I know who I am and I know when that type of looking down at or right because we don't walk around with nobody cares about the diplomas nobody cares about the whatever but once you have a conversation with somebody Then you start to understand, but see how [00:21:00] starting one, igniting a conversation requires curiosity.

And I don't think that when folks are used to sitting on their kind of high horse, so to speak, that they, have any incentive to cultivate that with other people and certainly outside of themselves. 

Bryan (he/they): There's one. One bit you were talking about really got me thinking about our connectedness in the sense of I stand up for anti queer behavior because It's not just me. I'm just this one gay person, but There's a whole community behind me, right? but to the same token like when you're talking about sex positivity and body positivity within the gay male community body positivity and sex positivity have boundaries And consent that the gay male community is still struggling with.

Because I've witnessed someone like have no boundaries with other people and be touching other people. But then as soon as someone touches them, they're like, [00:22:00] I have been accosted. And I'm like, okay, yes you have. And therefore you should not do that same thing to other people because you need to respect people's boundaries.

And that's something that I'm really hoping that we can get across to the younger generations, because there is something about 13, 14, 15 year olds right now, we're like in isolation during, fourth, fifth, sixth grade, and they have a problem with keeping their hands to themselves.

And I think that consent is something that should be in the curriculum, starting early. No more, go give your creepy uncle a hug if you don't feel like doing it. No more you have to let people touch your body as a kid because you're a kid. Really allowing children to own their bodies and give them that space is going to create a cultural shift for adults later on.

Wilfred (he/him): Yeah, I agree with you. And one of the dimensions of, One of the other classes I teach [00:23:00] is a theater for young audiences class, which is a lot of liberal arts facing students. And I actually use the phrase, a consent based environment, a consent based learning environment, learning ecosystem, and what that means inside of, what does that sound like, inside of collaboration.

I think that a lot of the word community with regard to intimacy training and consent is relevant in all of education. And I look forward to see, I'm not going to be the person, but someone needs to take this curriculum and just put it into professional development for all teachers.

Bryan (he/they): Knowing how to train people to interact physically together appropriately is something that is gonna help with pre k teachers, it's gonna help with, elementary all the way through high school. If we can start building this curriculum, it will actively change the world.

Because a lot of what we're dealing with [00:24:00] is oppression, right? When we're working in systems of oppression and the press tries to use the tools of the oppressor, which is what we're seeing with the gay male community, we, you don't win. There's no winning by using the tools of oppression.

You have to release the bonds of oppression in order to be able to like, Move forward and grow. 

Wilfred (he/him): Exactly. 

Bryan (he/they): Let's talk a little bit about showing up authentically at work. If you were to talk with someone who is new in education and they're concerned about being queer, what kind of advice would you give them?

Wilfred (he/him): This is a great question. I want to actually speak to examples because I can. And broad spectrum advice, yes, is, I think, lovely. But as I mentioned, I've done, I continue to do a lot of K 12 facing. So I call all of that youth facing [00:25:00] work. Teens, certainly in the sub bracket of that.

And teachers that interface with that age group, those age groups. And one of, here in San Diego, there are many different school districts, as you probably know, Bryan. And I've been in all of them. And I would say that, did I meet teachers who were in this situation? Absolutely. 

last I checked, the only one that has basically this program where you, they have a credentialing program within and you can student teach and they'll pay for your credential here in California. They do that. And so I was there and I was doing this residency arts integration residency with all the fourth grade teachers, which was four and all of their classes.

And if you don't know what arts integration is and you're listening. Oh my God, please check [00:26:00] it out. It's wonderful. The Kennedy Center has wonderful resources about it, but it's essentially you teach a core discipline and you teach a art form to one another. And so this was history and dance. 

What I noticed very quickly was the shifting, like the artifice that is teacher. And then when the students leave, the like hair comes down. we had a lot of conversation with this particular teacher and also in group conversation and the takeaways that I got from that. Those moments were, it's still rooted in fear.

Fear of losing a job, fear of being judged, you name it. if this was a play there, it's like life or death. That's what it feels like. So people need to understand why. [00:27:00] When we say being authentic, it's not a frou kumbaya thing. It feels like a weight of the world. And could you imagine, just like we say all the time, eight hours of sleep, that's a lot, that's a chunk of your time, right?

Hello, we're working a whole lot too. So if that whole chunk of time is not a space where you even have pockets Of vibrating truly. The sense of humor of you, how you adorn yourself, how you self express, I think that's where us as artists, right?

Artists, capital A and as educators, confluence there because we know it feeds. It feeds us in a way it frees us in a way. And that's what I want to get to. It's [00:28:00] if you're interested in having that greater sense of freedom. In how you connect with people, how you connect with, certainly your students, your colleagues how you connect with families, how you do all of these things.

It comes from a strong rooted self and that I think this comes back to not to raise up in a like braggadocious way because it doesn't feel like that to me. It feels like a whole lifetime of self actualization. That's what it feels like. To know that in a moment to go back to your question about confronting anti queer behavior, when a parent of a student I'm not here for them.

I'm here for the student, and I'm talking about a youth student, to know that their fundamental foundational issue with me has nothing [00:29:00] to do with me, but it has everything to do with standing in, standing our ground, and simply demonstrating and illustrating the grace and the beauty and the truth You can feel however you want to feel about that, but I'm going to come to this moment in an intelligible way, in a human way, and I'm going to call from you that.

I'm going to require that you do that. How? Maybe not like actually saying that, but in the way that I engage you and listen. And if you start to act up, I have the power to name that. So showing up authentically also means that, sometimes I refer to it like layers of armor.

Yeah, there is a level of artifice. We see this, these circulating gifts all the time, like a lifetime of queerness is dis, like, how was it? Unlearning things, but also realizing [00:30:00] what parts of myself are actually myself, and which were like self preservation, which were all these things.

And one could argue that there, there's shades of that, regardless of, LGBTQI plus people, absolutely, we know what that is. I'm sure that if we look at other minoritized. parts of identity, but that is there too, right? And I also want to say that's part of what makes conversation around personhood very difficult, is that it's intersectional.

People don't understand that shit. Pardon my French, but yo, it is that. So anyway, just to say authenticity to me is all of that and knowing Maybe this is the last thing I'll say. That often I find the most effective and one of the most powerful things we can do is declare it. Declare it for ourselves.

And I'm not saying declare your queerness. I'm [00:31:00] saying to declare who you are. This is who I am. This is how I work. This is how I collaborate. This is how I speak to people. And name it. And if we're talking about conflict transformation, right? Whether that conflict is rooted, again, in some false, falsehood is one thing.

Bryan (he/they): But if we as educators and teachers are interested in building a better society, that's part of our work. But it also takes an immense amount of reservoir. That sometimes, Bryan, I'll just be 100 with you, some days I don't have it. And those are the days where I have to dig really deep and self care Especially if you hold a banner and especially if you're also has intersecting identities intersectionality If you are, the Philippinex queer teacher on campus, and it's like you've got two banners that you're holding, and those [00:32:00] banners get very heavy, and you really do have to take care of yourself.

And it's frustrating because self care is such a buzzword that like, it makes your eye twitch when you hear it so often. But it's not about, the scented candle or going to get a latte. It's about whatever you need to do. For me, sometimes it's Vacuuming the house with my headphones on and singing broadway.

Like it's little things that help to refill your spirit 

Wilfred (he/him): This is one of the things. How to self love. Okay, I'm gonna read this. How to self love. Self love, self care, right? Work out. Eat healthy. Practice virtues.

Defend values. Seek challenges. Speak truth. Accept responsibility. Self love's earned, not wished. It is a practice. And that is to your point. Self love. It's different for everyone in any given moment. 

Bryan (he/they): And sometimes it's putting the headphones on, and today's self love moment for me, to be honest, was I was supposed to go to the gym this morning and I was like, I need [00:33:00] to rest if I'm going to go to the gym four times next week, like I just need this day. And so it is a moment to moment thing.

There were a couple other things that you mentioned that I think are worth Amplifying. The first is you had mentioned this sense of armor. And the thing is that authenticity doesn't mean no boundaries. Being authentic means you have boundaries, and it means that, I almost think of it like filters as opposed to armors, where things are getting through, but they're adjusted, right?

I used to tell my students that their teachers were the best actors in the world they would be Academy Award winners because of the fact that these children will go home and literally have no idea what the teacher, you know what their life is like. They have no idea. Because you can be your authentic self and who you are, but also still have appropriate boundaries.

And I think that's something that's worth elevating because I'm, I fear that some people are like, if I'm gonna be authentic, I really have to go at it and be authentic and there's no lies and there's no boundaries. But that is one, exhausting, and two can also put you in really tough [00:34:00] situations, especially if you work with teenagers because teenagers want, they want to share with you 

Wilfred (he/him): I'm glad that you pulled this out because what I will say, and this has happened I've taught that specific class. And I do a lot of professional development workshops around facilitating and one of the, points of contention often is this, and I think the best way that I have successfully spot lit it is really what you're getting at, which is You as in this mode, because we are fluid human beings.

And in a given moment, as a teacher in the room, sometimes I have to, if it is for example, an altercation with students, that's a different activation. If it's in the middle of this kind of learning, right moment, and it's more of a [00:35:00] straight up teach, like it's a textbook, it is something and analyze it.

That's what I mean by a straight up teach. That's different. It activates different. and there's many others, but that in any of those moments, when I say declaring, Sometimes what I try to do, I'll say I'm approaching this, from a place of deconstruction. So I'm going to actively say to you, I'm putting this hat on, and then we're going to speak from this place.

Okay, I'm going to take that off, right? can I be 100 with you? Are you in a place to receive this a more personal coming from self for a moment?

Yes, you are, or no, or talking about this consenting, the consent property of things. With teens, It's so important that showing up authentic also requires us to know, articulate, and calibrate in an appropriateness with them. We can't [00:36:00] assume things, right? And.

Authenticity of self doesn't mean everything, like we air all of these things. That's not what it means. And I think that sometimes is also a conflation of what is, this is not the pride parade, right? If the pride parade is like the, I'm just using that as an example, the ultimate platform of self amplification.

I love that word that you'd use, right? Then a classroom let's analogize that a little bit. Then a classroom, let's be sure that we are functioning to the clear aims goals of this space at this time. It is not about me. We are here in service to something, but I also, we can say that and also say that self, like sacrificing self is not okay.

Bryan (he/they): [00:37:00] I agree with that entirely, and it also brings back to the second point that I wanted to make. When you look back, if you're listening, you'll just listen back to his introduction. It's not, I'm queer, and I'm an educator, and let's move on. It's, I am a son, and I am an artist, and I am an educator, and I am this and I am that.

And the thing that I think identity politics right now is really playing into is that if you are a queer educator, that's all you are. You're just a queer educator, and that's all you are, except for I am a father, and I am a singer, and I am an educator, and I am an artist, and I'm a designer, and a technician, and I do so many things that make up who I am I'm a philanthropist, I am a podcast host, and these aren't just like jobs and titles that I'm doing, or roles that I'm playing, this is a part of who I am, they all encompass me, because, They all required some sort of training that has developed into the person that I am today.

And so when you're talking about [00:38:00] identity, it really is important to name it and truly name it in a way that's not isolating yourself by saying I'm the queer math teacher. No, that's not all of you. That's not all of who you are. That's not who you are. In that instance, that's your job title plus a part of your identity.

What's the rest of you? I feel that way as an educator. I say I'm an educator, even though at the moment I'm working as a technical director. I will start teaching again soon. I educate people in lots of different ways. It's a part of who I am.

I've always been. I was the oldest. I was always the person who was like teaching the little kids. It is a, it's a part of who I am, but I'm not that theater teacher. I'm an educator, and so really thinking about what your identity is so important, but I want to get to these final questions because I think you're going to have some really good insight for everyone.

The first one is what can the education community do to be more inclusive of [00:39:00] queer people? 

Wilfred (he/him): This is a brilliant question, and I would say to you, California, in my experience, and I'm talking about the UC system, the CSU system, the junior colleges here, right? There is a very pronounced effort without, not without challenge, too, right?

I'll give you a clear example. I went to the San Diego Unified Flag Raising. And that's right up the street from Diversionary Theatre 

Bryan (he/they): those of you who don't know, San Diego Unified does a pride flag raising during Pride Month. 

Wilfred (he/him): Thank you for qualifying that clarifying that.

And So there's that, and also in the South Bay of San Diego, it's very spread out. So South Bay, we lovingly refer to below the 54, which is a horizontal, if you're looking at the map freeway. And that's Basically from there down to the border, we refer to as like South Bay. And so down there, there's a [00:40:00] community college district.

Southwestern is a big part of that. And I teach off and on there. And so they had a new, there's a new performing arts building. It's beautiful on Old Tide Lakes Road. And. Some of my family lives up there. So I go and I frequent and they, there's these three, five poles and I'm driving one day and very prominently, like this is pro and I kid you not the threading or whatever it is in this flag.

It just seems even more vibrant and it's a large size flag and it's there, it's out there in a time where, we don't know. We don't know. Where the hearts are of our leaders and people want to play politics in this way, because we all, when it comes down to it the capitalism that, that is our social entanglements are what they are, and at the bare minimum, speaking to risk, we're talking about people speaking out of turn, people saying things, [00:41:00] and then what is the consequence of that as it relates to livelihood I'm not dismissing that. I'm pulling that out. And it says something when we can approach a conversation in a collective way and enough people say, this is a value and belief and the complexity of that conversation can even be like, yes, I agree, people exist. Like that's a revolutionary act in and of itself.

We exist. That right now has to be the cornerstone of the conversation. Because if not, then everything else, it's not steady. If we cannot agree that we have and always will be here and that you don't get to decide that, oh, it's a precarious conversation. So to the point of inclusivity, [00:42:00] those conversations have to happen and people have to be able to have prickly, crunchy dialogue and say at the bare minimum, we don't agree.

But also, I'm a whole ass human that also has value and also gets to speak, and you don't we don't get to allow each other to negate those things. And that's hard right now. It's hard. But I would also say about, educational community, there, there's a lot, especially in the K through 12, realm here, East County, South Bay County, where these, I'm going to use this term because it has been, it's reached my ears, even though I personally have not connected with these organizations, these more radicalized religious organizations, stirring the pot and saying things that are [00:43:00] You know, time tested kind of buzz phrases, right?

Like the grooming thing with drag queens and also calling into question our abilities in classrooms to, again, goes back to that appropriateness thing, I feel. So I would say that in order for us and educational communities to be inclusive, It requires our leaders to be very crystal and clear about what our values and beliefs are.

 If you can hire me and have a performance appraisal, and have feedback, and see the good The impact of what I can do, regardless of the chutes and ladders, candy canes, sugar plum fairy whatever nonsense I'm being tongue in cheek about it, but then it's [00:44:00] important for you to say that.

You must say that leaders and hold that space for us and call people to task in that way, because then you, it's not a question of how our value as it relates to the job then we can really focus on the fact that, Oh, you just uncomfortable or you just, we have to get to that place, and in the workplace, it's harder, because we're not there for, again, we're there of service.

But the step back that we must see is, if we're interested in a society where we're not negating ourselves, and I'm saying broad spectrum, everyone, that we can come to it wholeheartedly, then it requires this other work. So please. That's all I will say. 

Bryan (he/they): hear that, and I bet every one of us who was a teacher of the year for their school or school district who was then harassed for being gay, I [00:45:00] think that we all agree with that because the allies, the administrators, they all need to speak up and they need to remind people that's just one element of our identity.

That we're also a fantastic teacher and that we are caring and that we are putting these children first in a lot of situations I think that it's so ridiculous that administrators are so afraid to speak up and say What does that matter?

What does it matter who they love? What does it matter what their gender identity is they're doing their job and they're kicking ass at it. 

Wilfred (he/him): That's important to say too, because if we could, in this last little bit, hearken back to and our society, there are many mirrors of this.

If we look at don't ask, don't tell as a policy, what was that? We're going to not talk about it. And look what that did. And if that's the approach here, why are we thinking that there's going to be anyharm and reduction of humanity and all of those [00:46:00] things start to happen.

That's not a surprise. So we need to be more sophisticated in the way that we step to that conversation. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. And I think for me, it comes down to, we recognize and we name it. And then we say that it doesn't,

It's like left handed people for so long were demonized. I was born left handed and was forced to be right handed when I was five. And so left handed people got this Bad rap, a bing, devil, it's from the devil and whatnot. And it's all just a social construct. Wild. So wild.

And it's once you just realize that, oh, they're left handed and it doesn't change anything else about who they are, move on. You could be short and it doesn't change who you are and how you do your job. Whatever attributes make up who you are as a [00:47:00] person, they don't necessarily have a bearing on how you do your job.

If you do your job well, move on. To wrap up today's episode, we have a question from one of our listeners. So this question comes from Rachel in Florida.

Rachel asks, if you could sit down with a queer icon, who would it be and what would you talk about? 

Wilfred (he/him): I am a Scorpio and I tend to be very light hearted. Intense about all things. So who I would say, and there's many, but I think the first name that came to mind was James Baldwin immediately. And why? Obviously, top notes, right there, his clear sense of activism, his speaking to intelligible conversation and dialogue.

This person who sees the world from a place of deep deepness, and also isn't afraid to speak these and especially at where he, when he was alive, the hard [00:48:00] truths. And when we talk about intersectionality, we're talking about this person, this queer man, this gay man, this black man, and whoa, therein lies why I would speak to this human being.

And I will say this, at our gala, This past year at Diversionary Theatre, one of the kind of live events was thewe pulled it from the Lambda Archives here, our local chapter. an interview that was conducted and he was the interviewee. And it was read aloud, like a verbatim, performance.

And oh my god, you would think that this interview was now. And that's why I think, I would want to speak with them and, not to be fatalistic, but ask the questions of look at us, look at where we are now. What is your guidance? How do we, in your lifetime, what were things that you celebrated?

We need hope. We [00:49:00] need that. We can't lose that. And also knowing that it's about the journey and it's not about the outcome in that way. And we have to, I think it's important for us to Fall in love and embrace that. Even though that it can feel like a whole lifetime of fleeting.

But, one could be said. That could be said by our elders. in comparison to where they were and where they are now. We have to hold each other up so it would be James Baldwin. 

Bryan (he/they): I'm here for that. We're actually going to be doing a celebration on my campus for his 100th birthday next year, so I'm excited.

Look at that. Cause he's also someone who's influential in my pedagogy. When I think about culturally responsive teaching and I think about trying to connect with students from everywhere and making classrooms inclusive. Yes, he was an actor, but man, was he an educator?

So thank you for that. And Wilfred, thank you so much for spending your morning with me. I really appreciate it. I've learned so much and I [00:50:00] appreciate your insight and Man, there's just so much good content from this conversation that I hope people are able to take away. 

Wilfred (he/him): Thank you. Thank you to you, Bryan, for making this space.

Thank you to Teaching While Queer as now a platform and a flag in and of itself. It is so important, your work and this work.