71. Why Owning Your Queerness Makes Your School A Safer Place for All Students

Are you curious how a queer educator in a small rural school navigates identity and inclusion while working with a diverse set of students?

In this episode, we dive into the unique experiences of Rebecca Gennes (she/her), a fourth-grade teacher in Western New York, as she shares her journey of balancing her personal identity with her professional role. This conversation highlights the ongoing challenges and rewards of creating an inclusive environment in education, especially in a small community with evolving perspectives on LGBTQ+ issues.

Through our conversation you will:

• Gain insights into the personal and professional challenges faced by queer educators in traditional school settings.
• Discover how representation in literature and other forms of media plays a significant role in fostering acceptance and understanding
• Learn how personal identity and evolving relationships can impact and enhance one's approach to teaching and mentorship.

Tune in now to hear Rebecca’s inspiring story and learn how to make a difference in education through authenticity and inclusion.

Transcript

Rebecca (she/her): [00:00:00] Hi, Rebecca. How are you, Bryan? 

Bryan (he/they): I am so good and I'm really excited to sit down with you. can you tell everybody at home who you are? 

Rebecca (she/her): Sure. My name is Rebecca Jennis. I use she her pronouns. I am a fourth grade teacher at a small rural school in Western New York, to give you an idea about how small our district is.

I am the only fourth grade teacher, in the entire district, and we had 19 graduates in June. So we are very small, you get to know everybody quickly. It's a really nice school. Small, community. That's my school community.

In terms of the LGBTQ community, that's something that I personally am still working hard to figure out. I identified as a lesbian for a long time, and then my, partner who started as my girlfriend became my boyfriend, and so I'm not, I'm still trying to reconcile that and work through that, but supporting LGBTQ plus [00:01:00] people is something that I'm always going to be passionate about.

However, I identify myself. 

Bryan (he/they): I think that is such an interesting, situation. I've had friends, I've also seen, There's a play that I was reading for school. I was taking a queer theater class and one of the plays is about that. A man who has, transitioned, and part of it is these little monologues from his girlfriend, and she's I identify as a lesbian, sometimes I feel the need to say that he's trans because it makes me feel more queer, and that's where I think, pansexuality and demisexuality become more important because that terminology is more expansive.

Whereas the little box that we were given in starting in the 90s and then the early 2000s you're straight or you're gay and then bi came and then now we have things that are a little bit more expansive because at the end of the day, it's really about the person, right?

You fell in love with someone. 

I love [00:02:00] that. So what was life like for you as a queer student? 

Rebecca (she/her): My story coming at that is actually a little bit different than most people because I was homeschooled K 12. And so my experiences with the LGBTQ plus community, my exposure to the LGBTQ plus community, was a little more limited than maybe you might see from other folks.

And one of my closest friends, in high school and middle school and high school, she had two moms. And that was like one of the points where I started to realize Hey, this is part of our world too. And, knowing what I know about like puberty and sexual development It doesn't really resonate with me the way that it was taught to me from having heterosexual parents. And so it was a [00:03:00] unique way to explore my identity growing up because I wasn't in a place to see it on as much of a broader scale as maybe other students would have had that opportunity to.

Bryan (he/they): I think that's fair. I think that depending on when you grow up, there's definitely a level of exposure issue. It's definitely more prevalent now to see, queer couples, in the media or around. But, I think that, you were definitely in a situation where that would be much more limited.

So I'm glad that you even had, One frame of reference to help guide you on your journey, because it really is a hard thing to do if you have zero frames of reference for it. You just feel off, different, but there's no explaining why. So how do you think that those experiences you had, as a child have informed your work in education?

Rebecca (she/her): And I, this goes back to what we [00:04:00] talked about Re questioning your identity when your partner comes out as trans because I entered the field of education wanting to have that big impact of, being an openly queer educator and so You know, now that I say boyfriend instead of girlfriend or partner or whatever it, at first it felt like I wasn't staying true to that as much, but now that I, like I have told students that, my partner is trans because I have pictures of him and they'll see him and, he doesn't look like an AMAB person and so that conversation comes up of But your partner doesn't look like a boy.

And so we talk about what it means to be trans and things like that. And so I am still making the impact that I wanted just in a very different way. And I think the timeliness [00:05:00] maybe of what I am able to do is maybe even more important. than what I was hoping to do because of who's getting the spotlight and the majority of the oppression and things like that right now.

And so even though my life didn't take the path that I was necessarily hoping it would, I think it is allowing me to have more of an impact than I previously thought. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. I think that's why I enjoy the word queer so much. It's like an umbrella term. It can mean a lot of things.

And it's not for everybody, and I fully realize that, and I know that there's a whole generation of people where that was used as a term of aggression and of offense, and so I don't say that lightly, but for me, it feels more comfortable because I'm not limiting what it means to me. And I can see how that might be, an interesting kind of shift [00:06:00] From knowing this is the box that I'm in to now, maybe the sides of the box are gone and I'm just in this space and trying to navigate a space, with a compass maybe and not a map.

And I feel like a lot of us go through that, but, you are, lucky enough to have to, experience this growth twice in life. You had one journey that was understanding who you were as a lesbian and now you have another journey of understanding you and your relationship with your partner and what that means for you as a person.

And I think that the great thing is that we do live in a time where things are more spectrum y and more expansive and you really do get to go on a journey with figuring out what all of it means. It sucks, but it's definitely worth the payoff in the end, right? 

Rebecca (she/her): And as the teacher and as a [00:07:00] mentor, it's something I definitely hope to be able to support others through if that opportunity does fall on me.

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely, and I think you're absolutely correct in where we are seeing the brunt of discrimination and violence happening right now in the trans community. This is such a special message to share that I fell in love with this person and this person now has transitioned and I'm still in love with this person and it's reinforcing because I think for a lot of people who are anti queer, it comes down to sex.

It's all about sex. And I think what is beautiful about your story is you're reinforcing love. And you get to do that in. A normal conversation with your students that's just about my partner. Instances where you have to deal with anti queer behavior, what are some things you do when you're confronted with that?

Rebecca (she/her): I have to say I'm very lucky that I [00:08:00] have a very supportive admin and, we made it a point at our conference days last year to go over the new, guidance document. That's what we have about a million of in New York State. The new guidance document about, Trans and gender non conforming students.

And how the law reflects what we do in my district. It was encouraging to see that there had been, experiences of students in the past, even if there wasn't any current student that, any of the high school teachers could think directly of, but there were experiences in the past that people were calling on, and I think it's just a matter of Making yourself known in addition to your identity.

Because I make myself known as a person first. Hey, I'm here to be a teacher. I'm here to support these young minds. Oh, and this is also a part of who I am. it doesn't go away just because I'm in the [00:09:00] classroom. But also, I'm not going to, Put it before my job. Like I'm here to teach and I'm here to mentor and this is just a part of my life.

In addition to that, other teachers go home and have other women teachers go home and have husbands who were assigned male at birth and that's, what they do. It's no different than that. And that's what I try to communicate by being a teacher first and showing my personality as part of that.

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. And I think what's impactful about what you said is this idea of person first. I think about this, also from the disabilities community. I learned about person first language when we were trying to combat the R word and whatnot. And one, that is, cross collaboration between oppressed groups, right?

But also, when I'm in the comments, because I'm inevitably in the comments arguing with someone on YouTube, I always come back to these are just human beings sharing their [00:10:00] stories. We are human beings sharing our stories, talking about our jobs. That's it. 

And you're correct. You are a human being.

But also, there's this other aspect of queerness in your identity. There's this other aspect of maybe you like to play chess. Maybe you juggle. There are other facets of who you are and what your identity is. And it gets so frustrating when people hone in on the one thing. 

Rebecca (she/her): Great. New York State has said, I am licensed to be a teacher.

I'm, qualified to be at the table. And so I'm going to take my place. 

Absolutely. And thinking about that, if you were to talk to someone who's going into education and they were unsure about being authentic at work, what kind of advice would you give them? would say know your area. Know your admin.

Know your families. [00:11:00] Because not every district is as welcoming. as much as we can put in laws and legislation and guidance documents, unfortunately that oppression is going to be out there. Know your district and if you're going to insist on being as authentically yourself as I think you have every right to be, find yourself a district where you have supportive admin, where you have supportive families or if not even supportive families, just Families who accept you for your work because that goes a long way.

Like I mentioned before of weaving that into just hey, what'd you do this week? and kids will say, Oh, I went to the zoo or I went to this and I can just say my partner and I went to decorate the Christmas tree or whatever it is. just weaving it into your own story where it [00:12:00] fits, but making it part of your story as opposed to making it your entire story and then trying to make education a part of it.

It needs to be. as equal footing as you can because you're going to be heard if you're authentically yourself in as many areas as you can be, not just with your LGBTQ identity. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely, and I think that's the key there is that there are so many facets of your identity and authenticity is about owning all of that.

And you're absolutely correct in the sense that many of us just want to be able to say, my partner and I went to do this, and this. So many people on, the hater side, are like, there's no place for, sexuality in school and your gender ideology. And I was like, literally, I just want to be able to say that my partner and I went to some place with our kids.[00:13:00] 

It's not that difficult. And that's how heterosexuality shows up in the classroom every day. 

So We've got, being in New York State, we have some very inclusive laws and whatnot. Are there things that you think that the educational community can do to be more inclusive of queer people? 

Rebecca (she/her): I think there's things that New York State can do to be more inclusive of everyone.

there's too much red tape in education for me to be able to do what you do.

And I feel it. It is frustrating for me to, sometimes, to step into a classroom where I know that there are specific things that I need to follow and do, and that other things have to fall by the wayside because of that, and they're not getting the attention that I think that they need or deserve.

And I think, Recognizing that there are more LGBTQ plus people who are open than there's ever been. We [00:14:00] talk about with things like reading curriculum mirrors and windows, have young LGBTQ people or even people who aren't sure, students who aren't sure, being able to see themselves in literature and vice versa.

People who have no idea what it's like to be a member of the community. Seeing that authentically represented in literature is something we have a little bit of, but not lots of, and not just literature, like that applies everywhere, and I think the more normalized it becomes as just not even like state mandated part of what we learn, because that makes it even just a bigger deal, just like the fact that it can organically be.

A rise in our curricula, in our classrooms, is what will make children more accepting and our future generations more accepting. You have to, like the song from South Pacific says, you have to be taught how to hate, [00:15:00] but you can also be taught how to love. And it's our job to make sure that these students are getting a message of love, no matter who you are.

Bryan (he/they): Fun fact, that song was omitted from the musical for many years because it was too controversial. But, you have to be carefully taught is all about being carefully taught to hate people because they're a different race. And that is 100 percent true of any difference. And, I just love that you brought that up as a little musical theater nerd that I am.

Because I don't think a lot of people know about that song and I think it's way ahead of its time because it came out, what, decades and decades ago. And it's so interesting to me because I think that we do see, I see more hate being taught than love in the world right now, which I find very scary and sad.

We're wrapping up our interviews right now with a question from one of [00:16:00] our listeners. And today's question comes from Kelvin, from New Hampshire. And Kelvin asks, What is your favorite thing about working in education? 

Rebecca (she/her): That is like asking me to choose a favorite book. I think if I had to pick something that resonates with me more than anything else.

I'll share that I moved districts this past year. This upcoming year is going to be my second in the district, even though it's my fourth year teaching. And it was a move that I very much needed for a number of different reasons. But within a year, I already know who all of my students are going to be in the fall.

And I already know a lot of things about them. And I think it's developing that bond with your students and with your co workers and knowing that you're getting to know these people who are going to go [00:17:00] on and do amazing things and that you were part of their life even just for 180 days. That is probably one of the most special things that a teacher can say that they do that not a lot of people can say.

So I do love the ability to connect with children. And have that impact, because it is a very real bond that I don't think a lot of people understand if they're not in education. 

Bryan (he/they): I agree with that. As a theater educator when I was teaching high school, I started to collaborate with the middle school, and so I started to see people for long periods of time, That kind of connection where you get to see this person and watch them grow over the course of years is wild Especially when you get a glimpse at them Their senior years because there's this magical thing that happens after the winter break where they go from being like [00:18:00] teenagers teenagers to young adults And it's like all the college applications are done They got to go away for the holiday or whatever and then They come back and this young adult is there and as the person who's watched them for all these years you go, whoa When did that happen?

So That's one of my favorite things also about working in education I'm glad we could share that if you would like your question at home read on the podcast Please click the ask a queer educator link on any of the podcast apps And before we go, I want to, thank you. A lot of this time when I'm on the podcast, I'm speaking in, rough draft.

That's what a lot of my professors call it in grad school. When I was in grad school, it's we're thinking in rough draft right now. And so sometimes, often my words don't come out, a hundred percent. Correct. And [00:19:00] so I just want to thank you for bearing with me as, we were talking about relatively vulnerable situations and, for you and for sharing and being so vulnerable on the podcast.

I really appreciate it. 

Rebecca (she/her): Thank you for having 

me.